1 00:00:00,510 --> 00:00:30,609 [Music] 2 00:00:35,180 --> 00:00:32,870 greetings friends of astrobiology 3 00:00:37,729 --> 00:00:35,190 welcome back to a new episode of ask an 4 00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:37,739 astrobiologist this program is the show 5 00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:39,750 of the websites a gannett org where we 6 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:41,670 celebrate science diversity in science 7 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:44,280 and scientists this program is made 8 00:00:49,130 --> 00:00:45,930 possible by contributions from the NASA 9 00:00:51,830 --> 00:00:49,140 Astrobiology program LC the earth Life 10 00:00:53,569 --> 00:00:51,840 Science Institute and a non profit blue 11 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:53,579 marble space my name is Sandra um but 12 00:00:58,459 --> 00:00:55,890 before we start this is your a 13 00:01:00,080 --> 00:00:58,469 background quiz like every month so Mike 14 00:01:04,039 --> 00:01:00,090 if you could put up the background from 15 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:04,049 last month it is actually if nobody got 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:05,790 it right there was no suggestions for 17 00:01:10,219 --> 00:01:07,890 what it is I was asking you guys to kind 18 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:10,229 of identify what the little mounds were 19 00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:11,729 on the bottom left of the image and 20 00:01:18,499 --> 00:01:15,150 those are actually modern stromatolites 21 00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:18,509 so those are microbial mats that grow up 22 00:01:23,030 --> 00:01:21,119 towards the the sunlight of course and 23 00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:23,040 they form mounds and they're the model 24 00:01:27,649 --> 00:01:24,990 there are modern analogs of some of the 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:27,659 most ancient fossils of life we know on 26 00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:29,850 earth so the ones from the background 27 00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:31,920 from last month are in a biological 28 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:35,790 reserve in Mexico called cuatro Sienna 29 00:01:41,210 --> 00:01:39,150 guess if I pronounced it right and some 30 00:01:43,429 --> 00:01:41,220 of the oldest ones we have found in the 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:43,439 fossil record are over three and a half 32 00:01:48,889 --> 00:01:46,530 billion and that's was a be years old so 33 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:48,899 really really ancient forms of life that 34 00:01:53,569 --> 00:01:51,360 are found today in analog environments 35 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:53,579 so speaking of analog environments what 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:55,200 is my background this month 37 00:02:00,530 --> 00:01:57,930 you can see this cold ice desert it's a 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:00,540 location where scientists have gone to 39 00:02:04,459 --> 00:02:02,850 test instruments that are destined for 40 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:04,469 Mars excavation so if you know the 41 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:07,530 answer put it on a hashtag ask Astro bio 42 00:02:11,390 --> 00:02:09,750 on Twitter or on the Ziggy Network chat 43 00:02:12,260 --> 00:02:11,400 and we'll give you a shout out next 44 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:12,270 month 45 00:02:16,460 --> 00:02:14,310 you get it right so speaking of very old 46 00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:16,470 stuff this month we're gonna talk about 47 00:02:22,670 --> 00:02:20,070 even older material meteorites and for 48 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:22,680 that we are very lucky to welcome to the 49 00:02:27,710 --> 00:02:25,770 program dr. George Cooper who is a 50 00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:27,720 senior scientist in the exobiology 51 00:02:33,710 --> 00:02:30,120 branch at NASA Ames Research Center in 52 00:02:37,010 --> 00:02:33,720 California welcome George how are you Oh 53 00:02:39,230 --> 00:02:37,020 fine so enjoy Thanks and so like we like 54 00:02:41,420 --> 00:02:39,240 to do in this show we first rewind the 55 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:41,430 wheels of time a little bit and now like 56 00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:43,710 to we are curious about how did young 57 00:02:51,970 --> 00:02:46,680 George emerge to being the scientist he 58 00:02:54,590 --> 00:02:51,980 is today well I you know hadn't really 59 00:02:59,720 --> 00:02:54,600 discovered scientists the science until 60 00:03:02,600 --> 00:02:59,730 basically you know college and just sort 61 00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:02,610 of fell in love with chemistry instead 62 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:05,280 of you know other subjects an 63 00:03:12,050 --> 00:03:07,980 undergraduate and from what they are one 64 00:03:14,030 --> 00:03:12,060 thing led to another and so why choose 65 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:14,040 meteorites chemistry is a very very 66 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:16,290 broad discipline right so what got you 67 00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:17,970 interested in meteorites under their 68 00:03:23,540 --> 00:03:20,300 potential clues to the origin of life 69 00:03:28,010 --> 00:03:23,550 well in graduate school at Arizona State 70 00:03:30,290 --> 00:03:28,020 University my professor well my eventual 71 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:30,300 professor major professor was John 72 00:03:37,430 --> 00:03:32,910 Cronin who maybe some people in the 73 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:37,440 audience have heard of and the reason I 74 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:40,530 ended up with him is that I always liked 75 00:03:46,790 --> 00:03:43,530 astronomy you know having the telescope 76 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:46,800 and and you know things like that and 77 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:49,050 like I said an undergraduate I like 78 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:52,260 chemistry so it was trying to find an 79 00:03:57,590 --> 00:03:54,660 area of study in a graduate school that 80 00:04:00,500 --> 00:03:57,600 that sort of melded those two things 81 00:04:03,949 --> 00:04:00,510 together and you know he was the the 82 00:04:06,890 --> 00:04:03,959 perfect person because you know 83 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:06,900 meteorites undoubtedly you cannot talk 84 00:04:12,590 --> 00:04:09,510 meteorites without talking astronomy and 85 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:12,600 the solar system and at the same time is 86 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:14,070 you know the work is basically 87 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:19,650 analytical chemistry so you know I would 88 00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:22,710 say you know John Cronin and and then 89 00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:24,840 there's the Arizona State University me 90 00:04:28,180 --> 00:04:25,680 right center 91 00:04:31,370 --> 00:04:28,190 I think the world's largest university 92 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:31,380 meteorite center so it sort of came 93 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:34,620 together from there it's very exciting 94 00:04:38,450 --> 00:04:36,570 you're it's clear that your natural 95 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:38,460 biology is of interests from astronomy 96 00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:41,550 and chemistry merging to guide your 97 00:04:46,129 --> 00:04:44,400 field of research today so let's let's 98 00:04:47,930 --> 00:04:46,139 let's talk about first about meteorites 99 00:04:49,219 --> 00:04:47,940 could you describe to us what they are 100 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:49,229 how different they are you know they're 101 00:04:52,070 --> 00:04:50,460 iron meteorites they're chondritic 102 00:04:54,650 --> 00:04:52,080 meteorites what are the two differences 103 00:04:55,850 --> 00:04:54,660 and what they form and why is one of 104 00:04:56,770 --> 00:04:55,860 those important to study in the first 105 00:05:00,439 --> 00:04:56,780 place 106 00:05:03,740 --> 00:05:00,449 well the astronomers would take you back 107 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:03,750 to the beginning of the solar system and 108 00:05:10,730 --> 00:05:06,900 now they have photos actual photos of 109 00:05:14,589 --> 00:05:10,740 other forming planetary systems that you 110 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:14,599 know form out of rock dust gas and 111 00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:17,849 coalesce into larger bodies planets 112 00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:22,680 comets asteroids saw the the meteorites 113 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:24,660 that I study or when when most people 114 00:05:30,490 --> 00:05:27,720 say the word meteorite they're usually 115 00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:30,500 thinking of asteroid old meteorites so 116 00:05:37,790 --> 00:05:34,260 asteroids like comets are leftover bits 117 00:05:42,230 --> 00:05:37,800 of planet toys that didn't inform the 118 00:05:44,719 --> 00:05:42,240 larger planets like Earth so comets 119 00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:44,729 you could have meteorites from comets 120 00:05:50,659 --> 00:05:48,960 also but I think the historical problem 121 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:50,669 is if he picked one up you wouldn't know 122 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:52,830 whether it was a comet meteorite or an 123 00:06:00,080 --> 00:05:55,740 asteroid meteorite but the meteorites we 124 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:00,090 do have appear to match the spectra of 125 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:06,690 of asteroids so right now carbonaceous 126 00:06:12,620 --> 00:06:09,380 meteorites in particular are pretty much 127 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:12,630 almost all that scientists know how 128 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:16,349 probably came from the asteroid belt you 129 00:06:22,310 --> 00:06:18,180 know from the initial formation of the 130 00:06:24,620 --> 00:06:22,320 solar system so the the organic 131 00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:24,630 chemistry that's happening in meteorites 132 00:06:29,570 --> 00:06:27,840 is not something that happens once the 133 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:29,580 meteorites have arrived on earth right 134 00:06:34,010 --> 00:06:30,990 there's organic chemistry that can 135 00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:34,020 happen if the meteorites have ice when 136 00:06:38,980 --> 00:06:35,880 they are in the far away solar system 137 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:38,990 right and Eve 138 00:06:45,130 --> 00:06:43,370 before the the bodies of the asteroid 139 00:06:49,510 --> 00:06:45,140 the parent bodies of the meteorites 140 00:06:51,970 --> 00:06:49,520 formed people here for example here but 141 00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:51,980 you know over the years and enlightened 142 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:54,560 have shown that on the interstellar 143 00:07:00,100 --> 00:06:56,570 grains the grains that eventually 144 00:07:02,890 --> 00:07:00,110 coalesced to become asteroids and comets 145 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:02,900 even there you have chemistry taking 146 00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:04,910 place you have carbon oxygen nitrogen 147 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:08,720 and a source of energy photons radiation 148 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:13,730 so organics are even made before then 149 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:16,910 there's a big group here at Ames the 150 00:07:21,940 --> 00:07:18,770 Scott Sanford Lou El Mundo LaMichael 151 00:07:26,110 --> 00:07:21,950 nuevo who do this you know all the time 152 00:07:28,180 --> 00:07:26,120 they they form organics simulating the 153 00:07:30,790 --> 00:07:28,190 conditions of interstellar greenies 50 154 00:07:33,940 --> 00:07:30,800 degrees above absolute zero things like 155 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:33,950 that so that's probably I would say 156 00:07:40,270 --> 00:07:36,790 where the the initial organics are 157 00:07:43,390 --> 00:07:40,280 formed eventually to be in the rocks we 158 00:07:45,610 --> 00:07:43,400 have in the lab but after that you know 159 00:07:47,710 --> 00:07:45,620 the grains as I say they coalesce and 160 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:47,720 there's further chemistry once that 161 00:07:52,450 --> 00:07:50,630 water warms up more if you have 162 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:52,460 chemicals in water you're going to get 163 00:07:58,330 --> 00:07:55,430 more chemistry so for example glycine 164 00:08:03,340 --> 00:07:58,340 the smallest amino acid easily formed 165 00:08:06,250 --> 00:08:03,350 from from aldehyde suck night you know a 166 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:06,260 few other couple other things they're 167 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:08,630 all seen in interstellar space all the 168 00:08:15,490 --> 00:08:11,510 chemicals that amino acids and therefore 169 00:08:18,010 --> 00:08:15,500 us we're made of are out there so once 170 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:18,020 they land on freeze out on these grains 171 00:08:24,190 --> 00:08:20,420 from aldehyde cyanide aldehydes and 172 00:08:26,410 --> 00:08:24,200 ketones once they form on the grains as 173 00:08:28,750 --> 00:08:26,420 I said before there's chemistry when 174 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:28,760 they warm up incorporate into larger 175 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:30,770 asteroids as evidence for aqueous 176 00:08:39,430 --> 00:08:34,640 alteration there - so - I would say 177 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:39,440 primary sites for organic formation so 178 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:41,870 we are really a legal structure of 179 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:44,390 organic chemistry and it if some of 180 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:46,490 those fundamental organic compounds came 181 00:08:50,470 --> 00:08:49,040 from meteorites which are not formed on 182 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:50,480 earth but formed in the early solar 183 00:08:53,570 --> 00:08:51,810 system that really 184 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:53,580 means that we are Stardust which is 185 00:09:01,670 --> 00:08:57,630 quite humbling I think right so that's 186 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:01,680 this oh no go ahead sorry yeah that 187 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:04,950 that's you know the same chemicals or 188 00:09:11,450 --> 00:09:07,770 strana mercy wherever they look in the 189 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:11,460 universe so you know which which is a 190 00:09:20,030 --> 00:09:14,850 good sign for potential life in other 191 00:09:23,510 --> 00:09:20,040 places us so so life could have been if 192 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:23,520 life exists on on Mars and elsewhere of 193 00:09:28,210 --> 00:09:24,930 course you have no confirmation of that 194 00:09:30,980 --> 00:09:28,220 but those early those planets were also 195 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:30,990 subjected to the same early bombardment 196 00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:33,060 as Earth and therefore they also or 197 00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:35,940 contributed organic material so in your 198 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:37,440 view it's possible given the right 199 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:40,410 circumstances and it's a big if that 200 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:42,810 that life could have emerged on other 201 00:09:48,410 --> 00:09:44,930 bodies other than Earth of course oh 202 00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:48,420 yeah yeah of course even Mars last year 203 00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:52,800 I think 2015 maybe it was the finding of 204 00:09:59,060 --> 00:09:55,830 organics on the surface by the Rovers 205 00:10:03,470 --> 00:09:59,070 and the paper I think it was journal 206 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:03,480 Geophysical Research a big group said 207 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:07,130 that well the organics that were finding 208 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:11,850 could probably either meteoritic or from 209 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:17,730 some indigenous Mars process um so sings 210 00:10:22,910 --> 00:10:20,310 as I say at how the astronomers see 211 00:10:25,370 --> 00:10:22,920 these compounds every place they look 212 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:25,380 and now obviously land on Earth every 213 00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:27,210 day or we wouldn't have them in the 214 00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,040 rocks in our labs but now on Mars years 215 00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:34,560 ago we saw a comet crashing into Jupiter 216 00:10:40,940 --> 00:10:38,190 so yes the potential in addition to the 217 00:10:43,550 --> 00:10:40,950 meteorite organics you know the further 218 00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:43,560 chemistry on earth or maybe some also 219 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:46,740 indigenous earth compounds so yeah I 220 00:10:53,150 --> 00:10:50,010 think that's a great potential you know 221 00:10:55,010 --> 00:10:53,160 all their life so all life potential 222 00:10:57,410 --> 00:10:55,020 life in the solar system is shopping for 223 00:11:03,980 --> 00:10:57,420 organic matter at the same grocery store 224 00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:03,990 right so how does one find meteorites on 225 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:05,920 earth and how do you differentiate 226 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:10,630 from other rocks well the there are big 227 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:15,190 groups for example that go to the Arctic 228 00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:19,649 and an ice-covered you know snow-covered 229 00:11:25,139 --> 00:11:22,120 backgrounds like the one behind you 230 00:11:27,199 --> 00:11:25,149 exactly I've seen some of the pictures 231 00:11:30,180 --> 00:11:27,209 and they're pretty easy to spot most 232 00:11:33,389 --> 00:11:30,190 meteorites are you know darkish and it 233 00:11:36,210 --> 00:11:33,399 gets the snow you know you could rather 234 00:11:39,449 --> 00:11:36,220 readily pick them out but also you know 235 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:39,459 they're seen to fall and a lot of places 236 00:11:43,949 --> 00:11:42,040 and if you're careful and follow the 237 00:11:46,889 --> 00:11:43,959 trajectory you can find them yourself 238 00:11:49,079 --> 00:11:46,899 for example the Murchison meteorite the 239 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:49,089 most famous was found in Murchison 240 00:11:57,900 --> 00:11:52,930 Australia in 1969 and people saw it fall 241 00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:57,910 and saw a big debris field so that's the 242 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:01,600 the major you know type of discoveries 243 00:12:08,579 --> 00:12:05,860 Antarctic lucky fine they're transported 244 00:12:11,150 --> 00:12:08,589 to museums most of them you know ones 245 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:11,160 that aren't privately found and 246 00:12:18,689 --> 00:12:15,360 scientists me and others can request 247 00:12:20,970 --> 00:12:18,699 from museums or Antarctic meteorites 248 00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:20,980 again from say to Johnson Space Center 249 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:24,190 you know which has a huge collection so 250 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:27,730 those are the major ways to to get them 251 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:32,230 for scientific research so you have 252 00:12:36,329 --> 00:12:34,600 actively worked on the Murchison 253 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:36,339 meteorite itself which is just really 254 00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,720 cool could you tell us a little bit 255 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:39,519 about how you feel when you receive a 256 00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:42,250 sample that's as famous as the Murchison 257 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:43,720 perhaps you can describe to us also why 258 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,310 famous and like what goes through your 259 00:12:51,780 --> 00:12:47,920 mind when you hold this rock that's 4.6 260 00:12:54,269 --> 00:12:51,790 billion years old well we had an 261 00:12:57,809 --> 00:12:54,279 outreach the other day with students 262 00:13:00,240 --> 00:12:57,819 from one of the high schools local some 263 00:13:03,180 --> 00:13:00,250 were sort of local high schools and I 264 00:13:05,129 --> 00:13:03,190 had powder that you know it's no longer 265 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:05,139 useful research meteorite powder that we 266 00:13:12,439 --> 00:13:08,050 grind up and extract out the organics 267 00:13:15,569 --> 00:13:12,449 but what I did was let them smell it 268 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:15,579 because if you shake it the particles 269 00:13:19,379 --> 00:13:17,170 are still breaking down too 270 00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:19,389 des and the original gases from the 271 00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:23,470 solar system come out and and most 272 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:25,600 students says sort of smells like dirt 273 00:13:31,949 --> 00:13:27,970 and maybe wet dirt in the country when 274 00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:31,959 you walk walk along the road but the 275 00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:35,279 feeling you mentioned you know is still 276 00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:37,630 something else too to think that you're 277 00:13:43,379 --> 00:13:40,959 actually looking at smelling things that 278 00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:43,389 are for point they're actually closer to 279 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:47,800 four point six years old so and then 280 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:49,510 it's a process of extracting out 281 00:13:56,189 --> 00:13:52,510 organics and with normal analytical 282 00:13:59,819 --> 00:13:56,199 chemistry means and now it's ours 283 00:14:03,480 --> 00:13:59,829 Murchison the reason is I would say more 284 00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:03,490 famous is because when it fell in 69 285 00:14:08,579 --> 00:14:06,399 there have been meteorites of course a 286 00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:08,589 long time before that and there had been 287 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:11,889 analysis before that but mostly they 288 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:18,010 were very contaminated so of course the 289 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:19,810 earlier people had found some indigenous 290 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:22,570 compounds but a lot were just earthly 291 00:14:28,019 --> 00:14:25,630 contaminants Murchison as I said a few 292 00:14:32,490 --> 00:14:28,029 minutes ago it was actually seen to fall 293 00:14:35,069 --> 00:14:32,500 and picked up very quickly and on top of 294 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:35,079 that it had many many organic compounds 295 00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:41,410 so it sort of stood out right away and 296 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:45,519 and and the analysis began and you know 297 00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,980 people discovered amino acids in it and 298 00:14:52,319 --> 00:14:50,079 you know the older meteorites were 299 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:52,329 thought also to have amino acids but 300 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:54,610 again that contamination problem so 301 00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,370 Murchison sort of settled that you know 302 00:15:03,660 --> 00:14:59,920 that question wasn't for all and that's 303 00:15:05,340 --> 00:15:03,670 why is the more famous so you bring up a 304 00:15:07,439 --> 00:15:05,350 good point in a sense that earth is 305 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:07,449 covered with biology right so if a rock 306 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:10,930 from space falls on the planet then the 307 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,490 biology does near it could contaminate 308 00:15:17,129 --> 00:15:15,040 it and so how are we sure that these 309 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:17,139 organic matter that we find in 310 00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:19,000 meteorites are not actually just earth 311 00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:22,120 contaminating the rock right right and 312 00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:24,639 there there's in almost every meteorite 313 00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:25,720 I've looked at there's earth 314 00:15:30,809 --> 00:15:28,089 contamination at least you know some 315 00:15:34,650 --> 00:15:30,819 there's one that's you know very clean 316 00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,660 but most right life loves to any carbon 317 00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:37,120 source so the way people have 318 00:15:44,850 --> 00:15:39,670 discriminated against indigenous versus 319 00:15:47,819 --> 00:15:44,860 you know contamination one of the 320 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:47,829 principal methods was isotopes and 321 00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:50,050 people watching probably you know 322 00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:52,630 loosely heard of isotopes different 323 00:15:56,819 --> 00:15:55,000 weights of the same compounds so for 324 00:15:59,309 --> 00:15:56,829 example carbon most carbon in nature's 325 00:16:02,370 --> 00:15:59,319 twelve ways twelve on the periodic table 326 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:02,380 there's a little bit of carbon 13 I 327 00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:05,410 think around 1% or you know forget the 328 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:09,100 exact number so with mass spectrometer 329 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:10,930 is very sensitive mass spectrometers 330 00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:14,350 it's quite easy to tell if let's say the 331 00:16:21,540 --> 00:16:18,040 the carbon and glycine has the earth 332 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:21,550 ratio of carbon-13 to carbon-12 333 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:26,410 or if it's higher relatively in carbon 334 00:16:34,769 --> 00:16:31,350 13 then 12 to 12 and that tells you 335 00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:34,779 right away that is not from earth 336 00:16:41,579 --> 00:16:38,079 geochemist are very good even with only 337 00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,589 earthly samples they can take isotope 338 00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:43,600 measurements let's say of a rock in 339 00:16:48,929 --> 00:16:46,420 California or a rock in India and in 340 00:16:51,329 --> 00:16:48,939 some cases tell you what countries from 341 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:51,339 or what region rather is from simply by 342 00:16:57,449 --> 00:16:53,140 the isotopes and how it was made 343 00:17:00,449 --> 00:16:57,459 so the astronomers see that in space 344 00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,459 many compounds are fractionated that is 345 00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,880 these organics I mentioned a while ago 346 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:05,919 many are higher in the heavier isotopes 347 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:08,890 of carbon hydrogen nitrogen so when 348 00:17:12,689 --> 00:17:10,809 they're corporated again into the parent 349 00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:12,699 bodies of the asteroids fall to earth as 350 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:16,030 meteorites that signature a good deal of 351 00:17:21,299 --> 00:17:18,130 it is still there so that's that's 352 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:21,309 number one the the the second best ways 353 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:23,770 in some cases just as good is to look 354 00:17:31,470 --> 00:17:26,970 for organics that aren't used in biology 355 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:31,480 and that's what people have done a lot 356 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:34,990 since since Murchison look for strange 357 00:17:39,420 --> 00:17:37,570 amino acids because you know asteroids 358 00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:39,430 wasn't a biological process 359 00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:43,150 it would make glycine with two carbons 360 00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:46,630 all the way up to the the space 361 00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:49,120 processes a biotic non-biological 362 00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:52,300 process would make from carbon number 363 00:17:58,350 --> 00:17:55,960 two to carbon 15 four amino acids it's 364 00:18:02,210 --> 00:17:58,360 just thermodynamics whereas life on 365 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:02,220 earth uses very specific amino acids 366 00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:06,130 very specific weights life your body 367 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:08,620 bacteria doesn't want to make you know 368 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:11,890 every possible isomer of a compound up 369 00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:14,770 to c10 there's simply that's a waste of 370 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:15,190 energy 371 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:17,530 but again the ape and the non-biological 372 00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:20,320 abiotic processing asteroids probably 373 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:24,940 comments make all including weird ones 374 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:27,730 not used so that's how you tell if it's 375 00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:30,850 really from spaces non-biological 376 00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:34,270 compounds that's so cool so meteorites 377 00:18:38,610 --> 00:18:36,100 are really the history book of the solar 378 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:38,620 system and you and your colleagues learn 379 00:18:42,030 --> 00:18:40,030 the language of the rocks to really 380 00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:42,040 extract the story of that means of that 381 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,300 means of what that means for the 382 00:18:47,820 --> 00:18:45,760 formation of planets but also for the 383 00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:47,830 origin of life which it's just a 384 00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:50,020 fascinating field many years ago I was 385 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:52,030 lucky enough to be in Washington DC and 386 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:53,980 was visiting the meteorite collection 387 00:18:59,670 --> 00:18:56,170 you were talking about and I held in my 388 00:19:01,890 --> 00:18:59,680 hand a alh84001 which is like them the 389 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:01,900 meteorite that we know came from Mars 390 00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:04,690 and so there's not only meteorites that 391 00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:06,160 come from far beyond in terms of 392 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:07,870 asteroids that feed the earth but also 393 00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,490 the different planets are exchanging 394 00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:12,400 rocks with with each other and have you 395 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:14,350 worked with a Martian or even lunar 396 00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:19,690 samples no not what the alh you 397 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:23,230 mentioned or nor moon rocks 398 00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:26,050 my research is problem primarily the 399 00:19:34,410 --> 00:19:31,270 asteroid 'el meteorites okay yeah and 400 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:34,420 the fact that the rocks can transfer 401 00:19:37,650 --> 00:19:35,770 between planets is also I found 402 00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:37,660 mesmerizing because he can tell some 403 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:39,340 some stories about the Martian 404 00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,290 atmosphere is from the atmosphere that's 405 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:43,840 trapped in bubbles in that form on Mars 406 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:45,370 and that rock was transported to earth 407 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:46,690 from which you can analyze using the 408 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:49,150 tools if such used you're mentioned so 409 00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:51,190 just really cool analytical techniques 410 00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:52,590 and the precision you need to make 411 00:19:55,789 --> 00:19:54,630 conclusion is incredible I was also 412 00:19:57,799 --> 00:19:55,799 quite amazed to hear about your 413 00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:57,809 colleagues that simulates the radiation 414 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:01,200 the solar radiation inside the 415 00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:02,970 laboratory to create the conditions that 416 00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,620 leads to the development of organic 417 00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:06,539 matter that then you can take in the 418 00:20:11,659 --> 00:20:10,049 laboratory using your techniques to see 419 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:11,669 what's there and then does that conform 420 00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:14,370 with what we can expect so Wow it's a 421 00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:16,200 really cool stuff when you were a 422 00:20:20,210 --> 00:20:19,020 student I'm sure is it's like all of us 423 00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:20,220 have been through college it's kind of 424 00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:21,750 it's not an easy path to navigate 425 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:24,299 especially when you're after a PhD I was 426 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,740 wondering if you benefited from from 427 00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:27,840 mentors in that process and any people 428 00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:29,940 that contributed that helped you out to 429 00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:33,390 become the scientist you are today 430 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:36,750 well again graduate school you're your 431 00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:40,110 best mentor is going to be your 432 00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:44,820 professor undergraduate you know you you 433 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:49,710 do have of course you know professors 434 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:51,570 that you're some you're closer to than 435 00:20:57,380 --> 00:20:54,570 others and of course you know there's 436 00:21:00,980 --> 00:20:57,390 there's always help along the way but 437 00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:00,990 for getting settled in your particular 438 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:03,809 field and for example the organic 439 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:05,130 analysis of meteorites were talking 440 00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:07,740 about now the major professor graduate 441 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:10,740 school is I would say the chief mentor 442 00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:15,390 and so I I was lucky I had the what I 443 00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:18,960 call a professor's professor and John 444 00:21:23,899 --> 00:21:21,480 Cronin who you know took his work very 445 00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:23,909 seriously and he you know it's sit there 446 00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,000 all day and get every I dotted 447 00:21:33,889 --> 00:21:28,799 everything would be correct when he got 448 00:21:36,409 --> 00:21:33,899 up so I would you know say that you know 449 00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:36,419 mentor wise but you know it's the host 450 00:21:42,649 --> 00:21:39,270 at ASU them the Stars being in 451 00:21:45,889 --> 00:21:42,659 meteorites you know you had his postdoc 452 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:45,899 there Santa Pizza reloj you had the the 453 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:48,090 ASU meteorite Center with you know 454 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:52,110 Carlton Moore and other people there who 455 00:21:58,010 --> 00:21:54,390 this was serious business for them you 456 00:22:01,370 --> 00:21:58,020 know so that that always affects you 457 00:22:03,620 --> 00:22:01,380 know as a student as you probably as as 458 00:22:05,169 --> 00:22:03,630 you probably know you know so it's the 459 00:22:07,690 --> 00:22:05,179 whole 460 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:07,700 community of meteorite people in my case 461 00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:10,010 organic you know analysis of meteorite 462 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:14,030 group so what did you do after you 463 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:16,190 finished your PhD who is this expertise 464 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:20,870 in meteorite studies well I was came to 465 00:22:26,980 --> 00:22:23,450 Ames as a postdoc for sure what change 466 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:26,990 and it was one of the founders of you 467 00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:30,110 know astrobiology he really worked for 468 00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:33,380 years to to focus research get funding 469 00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:36,830 for research and he was the branch chief 470 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:39,140 at that time of the exobiology branch 471 00:22:47,169 --> 00:22:42,770 here and he retired years ago so I was 472 00:22:52,180 --> 00:22:47,179 his postdoc and so a few years postdoc 473 00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:52,190 and then a position came open I was 474 00:22:58,930 --> 00:22:54,590 lucky to get the the research scientist 475 00:23:05,710 --> 00:22:58,940 position here so that was pretty much to 476 00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:05,720 the trail from graduate school and let's 477 00:23:13,810 --> 00:23:11,360 see so the environment the academic 478 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:13,820 environment is one that is changing and 479 00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:16,360 I was wondering if you have any 480 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:19,760 recommendations for minorities who are 481 00:23:24,850 --> 00:23:23,120 interested in in science and want to 482 00:23:29,890 --> 00:23:24,860 become scientists and get PhDs in 483 00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:29,900 science well I guess if you start you 484 00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:32,840 know an undergraduate the the advice a 485 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:35,929 lot of the advice is the same for 486 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:40,450 everyone you know find opportunities ask 487 00:23:47,409 --> 00:23:44,500 professors counselors you know about 488 00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:47,419 internships that of things you might be 489 00:23:58,890 --> 00:23:54,080 interested in let's see and now there's 490 00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:02,440 minority field for example I knew people 491 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:06,590 at you know Howard University and Texas 492 00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,010 Southern you know and it's always good 493 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:13,520 to try to to reach out to people like 494 00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:16,610 that who you know can tell you how they 495 00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:17,750 operate it 496 00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:19,670 the system you know what made life a lot 497 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:25,820 easier so that and I always have joke 498 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:29,210 that and get lots of sleep but health 499 00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:32,810 and you know but I I would say if you 500 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:35,750 have an idea about what you want then 501 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:38,320 there's nothing like getting internships 502 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:41,330 finding the information you know and 503 00:24:47,170 --> 00:24:43,850 most professors at you at their school 504 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:47,180 should have an idea of internships and 505 00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:50,290 opportunities I think that's huge 506 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:53,360 yeah the students have really nothing to 507 00:24:57,670 --> 00:24:55,970 lose for reaching out and contacting an 508 00:25:00,490 --> 00:24:57,680 expert and hey I'm really interested in 509 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:00,500 this what can I do to you know advance 510 00:25:03,820 --> 00:25:02,210 my career and most of the time you 511 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:03,830 you'll get a response so all of you who 512 00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:05,330 are students who are watching this like 513 00:25:09,550 --> 00:25:07,820 don't feel shy about connecting whether 514 00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:09,560 it was a scientist most likely dogs are 515 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:14,540 delighted to reply so yeah what what do 516 00:25:20,830 --> 00:25:16,850 you find most exciting about being an 517 00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:20,840 astrobiologist well again it goes back 518 00:25:26,590 --> 00:25:23,510 to what you mention is you know looking 519 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:26,600 at these four point five seven eleven 520 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:30,050 billion here holding rocks you know that 521 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:34,700 is still to me amazing so that is number 522 00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:37,010 one you know the fact that you can look 523 00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:41,120 at something that formed before anyone 524 00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:44,870 thought you know about humans before 525 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:46,670 there was any thought about humans 526 00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:49,910 before the earth actually formed and now 527 00:25:56,770 --> 00:25:53,470 with again with these space telescopes 528 00:26:00,250 --> 00:25:56,780 it's just not some delusion you actually 529 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:00,260 see the same process happening all over 530 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:02,690 the place over and over again so it 531 00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:04,730 really drives home the point that you 532 00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:09,760 are looking at you know formations of 533 00:26:15,670 --> 00:26:13,100 planets eventually to be you know people 534 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:15,680 and bacteria and crocodile you know it's 535 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:18,890 just amazing so that that I would say is 536 00:26:24,190 --> 00:26:21,370 still number one 537 00:26:26,260 --> 00:26:24,200 so can you paint in your mind and and 538 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:26,270 share that with us perhaps how you think 539 00:26:30,909 --> 00:26:30,050 life arose on our planet what kind of 540 00:26:33,369 --> 00:26:30,919 environments 541 00:26:37,239 --> 00:26:33,379 or yeah boy that's a nobel-prize 542 00:26:39,849 --> 00:26:37,249 question right yeah maybe in three years 543 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:39,859 I'll give you an answer but but that 544 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:43,850 that's that's the golden question you 545 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:46,970 know I we see the compounds in organic 546 00:26:52,869 --> 00:26:49,850 compounds and meteorites but it's 547 00:26:55,509 --> 00:26:52,879 obvious that it took from there some 548 00:27:00,129 --> 00:26:55,519 more some additional chemistry on the 549 00:27:03,609 --> 00:27:00,139 earth for example right now we don't see 550 00:27:06,909 --> 00:27:03,619 long polymers of proteins you know made 551 00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:06,919 of amino acids which is in everything 552 00:27:13,930 --> 00:27:09,679 you know everything that's life 553 00:27:17,139 --> 00:27:13,940 there's a very small - amino acid 554 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:17,149 peptide or you know very small piece of 555 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:19,850 a protein but that's very trace amounts 556 00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:23,090 so it had to take more chemistry from 557 00:27:29,049 --> 00:27:25,340 the Earth's and probably you know 558 00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:29,059 additional chemistry in hot regions 559 00:27:34,539 --> 00:27:32,200 people are doing hydrothermal vent 560 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:34,549 simulations people like you know George 561 00:27:43,180 --> 00:27:40,129 Cody at Carnegie years ago researchers 562 00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:43,190 took amino acids and simply put them on 563 00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:45,799 what they simulate it to be hot islands 564 00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:47,960 ancient volcanic islands on the ancient 565 00:27:53,529 --> 00:27:50,720 earth using just heat you can form 566 00:27:56,499 --> 00:27:53,539 linkages you can join compounds together 567 00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:56,509 which is necessary before you get life 568 00:28:00,369 --> 00:27:58,369 you have to join individual small 569 00:28:03,249 --> 00:28:00,379 compounds together and they could do 570 00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:03,259 that was simply heat by mimicking the 571 00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:05,960 many what had to be the many volcanic 572 00:28:12,879 --> 00:28:10,609 hot areas own agent earth so I and heat 573 00:28:15,249 --> 00:28:12,889 is just the simplest thing to do I don't 574 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:15,259 know of a complicated scenario for life 575 00:28:19,419 --> 00:28:17,330 people are working on it but you know I 576 00:28:22,659 --> 00:28:19,429 would start with something like that you 577 00:28:25,539 --> 00:28:22,669 know but well you know as time go on 578 00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:25,549 ideas will get better and better yeah 579 00:28:30,879 --> 00:28:27,799 it's an active area of research so if I 580 00:28:32,919 --> 00:28:30,889 understand you well the the seeds you 581 00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:32,929 need to get life started on a planet 582 00:28:39,159 --> 00:28:36,529 requires not only solar system chemistry 583 00:28:40,479 --> 00:28:39,169 where you have cosmic radiation that's 584 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,489 interacting with eyes that are 585 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:42,320 meteorites who create as organic matter 586 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:44,090 but also the 587 00:28:47,470 --> 00:28:46,010 the geochemistry the chemistry that's 588 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:47,480 happening at the interaction of a 589 00:28:51,610 --> 00:28:49,850 terrestrial or planetary surface 590 00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:51,620 interacting with rocks and water and the 591 00:28:56,020 --> 00:28:53,300 chemistry is happening then putting 592 00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:56,030 those two together and you know with the 593 00:29:00,970 --> 00:28:58,930 proper conditions could then arise 594 00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:00,980 biology right so it's not only a 595 00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:03,860 planetary a closed planetary ecosystem 596 00:29:08,590 --> 00:29:05,960 that leads to life it's this interaction 597 00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:08,600 of the planet with with its outer solar 598 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:12,380 system environments exactly even though 599 00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:13,970 I'm you know I'm fascinated with 600 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:16,460 meteorite organics this this big Earth's 601 00:29:22,510 --> 00:29:19,610 not wasn't sitting here for nothing 602 00:29:24,940 --> 00:29:22,520 billions of years ago so like said 603 00:29:28,750 --> 00:29:24,950 undoubtedly there was further chemistry 604 00:29:30,970 --> 00:29:28,760 maybe different chemistry the the 605 00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:30,980 organics and meteorites you could have 606 00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,040 you can make very fragile compounds that 607 00:29:38,770 --> 00:29:36,320 you need it probably need it for life 608 00:29:41,410 --> 00:29:38,780 for example pyruvic acid oxalic acid 609 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:41,420 things like that because you're forming 610 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:43,730 them out there as I said it you know 50 611 00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:47,450 Kelvin you know very cold so there are 612 00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:49,910 radical compounds that are very stable 613 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:53,840 and in interstellar space when they fall 614 00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,050 to earth they're very reactive so right 615 00:30:01,740 --> 00:29:58,880 away on Earth's surface they could have 616 00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:01,750 done more chemistry but again also 617 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:05,180 linking monomers linking amino acids 618 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:07,610 together sugar or sugar derivatives 619 00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:10,730 together to make our larger the larger 620 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:14,510 polymers were made of right now it looks 621 00:30:23,170 --> 00:30:18,050 like that had to be an earth process you 622 00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:23,180 know whatever the the mechanism and like 623 00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:26,140 I said I sort of favor you know warm 624 00:30:31,570 --> 00:30:27,980 maybe even hot 625 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:31,580 at least localized now the ancient earth 626 00:30:35,260 --> 00:30:33,530 for organics couldn't have obviously 627 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:35,270 couldn't have been terribly hot or you 628 00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:37,490 wouldn't have had organics but localized 629 00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:39,380 to just the right temperatures and they 630 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:42,080 must have been a very huge amount of 631 00:30:48,250 --> 00:30:46,010 different temperature regimes for 632 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:48,260 linking compounds together I think that 633 00:30:52,570 --> 00:30:50,930 would be the right compounds and there 634 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:52,580 are many in the meteorites and who knows 635 00:30:55,779 --> 00:30:54,530 what it made on earth there are the 636 00:30:58,739 --> 00:30:55,789 right compounds that 637 00:31:02,759 --> 00:30:58,749 you did have a warm hot or hot 638 00:31:04,450 --> 00:31:02,769 environment that easily could link 639 00:31:07,169 --> 00:31:04,460 compounds could have been linked 640 00:31:10,299 --> 00:31:07,179 together to form larger polymers 641 00:31:12,909 --> 00:31:10,309 fascinating so could you take us to your 642 00:31:14,499 --> 00:31:12,919 lab and describe to us what you do in 643 00:31:19,299 --> 00:31:14,509 the lab what kind of instruments do you 644 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:19,309 use to make such detailed measurements a 645 00:31:26,229 --> 00:31:22,129 few different types of instruments and 646 00:31:28,509 --> 00:31:26,239 techniques the first is really boring 647 00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:28,519 analytical chemistry stuff you have no 648 00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:30,529 don't tear your sample you have to 649 00:31:36,009 --> 00:31:33,590 extract with solvent it could be water 650 00:31:38,589 --> 00:31:36,019 or it could be a you know more nonpolar 651 00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,599 solvent you first you have to extract a 652 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:40,399 compound Lau but there are a lot of 653 00:31:49,239 --> 00:31:45,529 salts and and meteorites so that's for a 654 00:31:51,369 --> 00:31:49,249 long you know keep the story short you 655 00:31:53,379 --> 00:31:51,379 couldn't do the type of analysis I do 656 00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:53,389 and the mixed of all the sauce for 657 00:31:57,519 --> 00:31:55,369 example in Murchison a lot of meat our 658 00:32:02,320 --> 00:31:57,529 carbonation meteorites there's lots of 659 00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:02,330 sulfate so4 - - mer send a lot of it is 660 00:32:10,029 --> 00:32:07,190 magnesium calcium you have to - what we 661 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:10,039 call d salt you have to remove those to 662 00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:12,700 the side to get at the organics and 663 00:32:17,139 --> 00:32:15,200 here's where the boring analytical 664 00:32:20,649 --> 00:32:17,149 preparation techniques come in you know 665 00:32:23,349 --> 00:32:20,659 use resins to D salt and you go on and 666 00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:23,359 on and it can take forever for one 667 00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:26,840 sample and the instrument that finally 668 00:32:34,570 --> 00:32:30,080 tells you what the organic is in my case 669 00:32:39,339 --> 00:32:34,580 this mostly gas chromatography - mass 670 00:32:43,629 --> 00:32:39,349 spectrometry GCMs and a little bit of 671 00:32:48,009 --> 00:32:43,639 liquid chromatography but that is my has 672 00:32:50,619 --> 00:32:48,019 been my major analytical estimate that I 673 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:50,629 actually identifies compounds I use 674 00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:53,450 others for other reasons so can you 675 00:32:59,499 --> 00:32:57,320 describe what a GCM is is and does in in 676 00:33:04,089 --> 00:32:59,509 just a few minutes okay a gas 677 00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:04,099 chromatograph the GC part you injectors 678 00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,230 after you've done all the preparation 679 00:33:11,170 --> 00:33:08,000 you inject the sample 680 00:33:15,010 --> 00:33:11,180 and the word gas implies of course a gas 681 00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:15,020 phase it vaporizes a sample puts it onto 682 00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:20,960 a GC column a column is a long glass 683 00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:23,750 capillary tube coated inside with 684 00:33:29,230 --> 00:33:26,660 organic with an organic phase your 685 00:33:32,410 --> 00:33:29,240 compounds after you inject land and that 686 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:32,420 long column make these columns can be 25 687 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:35,810 meters 50 meters and often I've used 688 00:33:43,150 --> 00:33:40,010 even longer GC columns they land in that 689 00:33:46,150 --> 00:33:43,160 phase again back to the gas part you 690 00:33:47,710 --> 00:33:46,160 start heating your gas chromatograph so 691 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:47,720 your column is inside the gas 692 00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:49,730 chromatograph the organics are now 693 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:52,790 they've landed on that column so now you 694 00:33:59,890 --> 00:33:56,810 start heating that column and eventually 695 00:34:04,360 --> 00:33:59,900 things boil off they boil off at 696 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:04,370 different temperatures because most of 697 00:34:08,650 --> 00:34:06,410 the audience knows about a boiling point 698 00:34:11,350 --> 00:34:08,660 water boiling points 100 degrees Celsius 699 00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:11,360 so the organics on this column they as 700 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:14,150 you slowly heat up your column they come 701 00:34:19,210 --> 00:34:16,130 off at their own particular boiling 702 00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:19,220 point in that particular organic phase 703 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:24,080 of the column and that's the major a way 704 00:34:29,260 --> 00:34:27,050 to separate organics they boil off their 705 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:29,270 swept out of the column you you're 706 00:34:35,890 --> 00:34:33,170 always running a gas through it an inert 707 00:34:37,330 --> 00:34:35,900 nonreactive gas that doesn't react with 708 00:34:40,630 --> 00:34:37,340 your compounds for example helium or 709 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:40,640 hydrogen so because the each compound 710 00:34:46,180 --> 00:34:43,610 has a different boiling point you can 711 00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:46,190 imagine when these compounds are leaving 712 00:34:52,330 --> 00:34:48,230 the column going to the detector or the 713 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:52,340 mass spectrometer you'll see each 714 00:34:58,420 --> 00:34:54,770 compound come off at a different time in 715 00:35:01,090 --> 00:34:58,430 other words this gas chromatograph is 716 00:35:03,820 --> 00:35:01,100 taking this big group of a mass of 717 00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:03,830 organics and a meteorite and separating 718 00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:07,520 it so you can identify one by one the 719 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:09,860 compounds you couldn't do it 720 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:12,800 if you we had all the organics just 721 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:15,850 sitting there and one one big mixture 722 00:35:19,630 --> 00:35:18,560 after they go to the mass spectrometer 723 00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:19,640 and a mass spectrometer 724 00:35:25,780 --> 00:35:22,180 can tell you the molecular weights of 725 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:25,790 the organics and it also fragments the 726 00:35:30,250 --> 00:35:27,410 compounds it shoots a beam of electrons 727 00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:30,260 at each compound they break apart 728 00:35:37,660 --> 00:35:33,740 fragment but they do it in different 729 00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:37,670 ways so that's called a fragmentation 730 00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:43,460 pattern so the fragments are an ID you 731 00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:46,160 know fingerprint of each organic so you 732 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:48,980 had so that's two ways to identify the 733 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:51,530 retention time or the time it takes each 734 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:54,290 compound to boil up and come out and 735 00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:57,170 it's fragmentation pattern how it breaks 736 00:36:03,730 --> 00:36:00,560 apart and you know that because you run 737 00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:03,740 several standards either before or after 738 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:05,900 you can analyze your sample and if that 739 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:09,170 standard matches then you can go back to 740 00:36:12,730 --> 00:36:11,510 your sample and say AHA this one had the 741 00:36:16,690 --> 00:36:12,740 same wintertime in the same 742 00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:16,700 fragmentation pattern the GCMs the gas 743 00:36:21,970 --> 00:36:18,980 chromatography mass spec is what was 744 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:21,980 used for I think the first big Olympic 745 00:36:28,090 --> 00:36:26,210 cheating scandal I think that was 1990 746 00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:28,100 maybe son joy well you probably went 747 00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:31,550 boring warning but I think it was the 90 748 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:33,640 or 92 Olympics and there was a big 749 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:37,010 doping scandal and a gas chromatograph 750 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:39,710 mass spec did exactly what I just 751 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:43,850 described it identified the the 752 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:47,570 compounds and so if you are caught you 753 00:36:53,860 --> 00:36:51,650 couldn't say no no no the GCMs was wrong 754 00:36:55,930 --> 00:36:53,870 because it's really tough to be wrong 755 00:36:59,650 --> 00:36:55,940 when you have a standard and all the 756 00:37:02,380 --> 00:36:59,660 properties are identical so it's pretty 757 00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:02,390 useful not for me for example the water 758 00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:04,790 in the background of a Sun joy there 759 00:37:11,110 --> 00:37:07,340 when you melt it you could analyze it by 760 00:37:13,420 --> 00:37:11,120 GCMs to tell what compounds are there so 761 00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:13,430 it's pretty useful technique that's so 762 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:15,590 cool I could talk to you forever about 763 00:37:18,910 --> 00:37:17,330 meteorites and organic matter but I 764 00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:18,920 think it's time that we open the floor 765 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:20,630 up to questions I'm gonna turn to my 766 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:22,490 question screen which is right here and 767 00:37:33,070 --> 00:37:29,920 what is responsible for choosing the 768 00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:33,080 chiral handedness of organic molecules 769 00:37:41,860 --> 00:37:39,680 in life that's another good question 770 00:37:44,380 --> 00:37:41,870 no one knows it 771 00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:44,390 scientists know why it works so well why 772 00:37:49,810 --> 00:37:47,780 and what what he's talking about is if I 773 00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:49,820 don't you know know how diverse the 774 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:51,800 audience is but if you put up your two 775 00:37:55,390 --> 00:37:53,570 hands you could imagine pretend that's 776 00:37:56,830 --> 00:37:55,400 an organic compound you have a left 777 00:38:00,970 --> 00:37:56,840 mirror image and a right mirror image 778 00:38:04,330 --> 00:38:00,980 well for example in RNA and DNA only one 779 00:38:06,490 --> 00:38:04,340 of those mirror images of the compound 780 00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:06,500 in this case I'll say ribose and Ernie 781 00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:09,920 only one is used in those long strands 782 00:38:15,970 --> 00:38:13,160 of RNA and DNA so most people from 783 00:38:18,340 --> 00:38:15,980 school high school have seen the long 784 00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:18,350 strands you have an RNA a base and 785 00:38:24,490 --> 00:38:21,260 phosphate and it repeats RNA you know 786 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:24,500 ribose phosphate base and it goes on and 787 00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:27,890 on and on but only one of those ribose 788 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:32,420 is only the D mirror image is used so 789 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:36,290 that's what caller Mr Wong is asking 790 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:39,110 about how in the world can you get just 791 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:41,510 one because if you go in a lab to make 792 00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:45,770 let's say rivals non-biologically like 793 00:38:50,350 --> 00:38:48,020 what happened before life it was it 794 00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:50,360 wasn't a biased process you go in the 795 00:38:54,610 --> 00:38:52,070 lab now and do the same thing you'll get 796 00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:54,620 both you'll get two hands just like 797 00:38:59,170 --> 00:38:56,420 flipping a coin a thousand times you 798 00:39:03,520 --> 00:38:59,180 can't get one coin one hour here only 799 00:39:08,350 --> 00:39:03,530 hits so that is a good question you know 800 00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:08,360 how did one get picked out from what 801 00:39:15,070 --> 00:39:11,630 we're seeing now with compounds close to 802 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:15,080 sugars and what my old professor and 803 00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:17,570 Senator Pitt Cirillo saw back you know 804 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:19,670 years ago a paper published in science 805 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:22,910 in 1997 was that some of the amino acids 806 00:39:30,190 --> 00:39:27,770 have a slight bias of one of the mirror 807 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:30,200 images you know sometimes it you know 808 00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:33,050 the the amount the excess of one of 809 00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,960 those mere inches very it's the l-amino 810 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:38,160 acid which just by cause an assistant 811 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:41,490 on your proteins beta so lately we see 812 00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:44,130 sugar derivatives you know cousins of 813 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:48,660 ribose that has a lot more of one mirror 814 00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:51,050 image and that's 2d mirror image and 815 00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:54,720 maybe it's questionable now but the D of 816 00:40:03,650 --> 00:39:58,200 the sugars are what is what life uses 817 00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:03,660 mostly oh is that a hint to you know the 818 00:40:08,030 --> 00:40:06,390 answer to that question you know what 819 00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,040 else happened on the ancient earth you 820 00:40:13,070 --> 00:40:10,440 know so that what I described came from 821 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:13,080 space comes from space what else 822 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:15,330 happened on earth and people are looking 823 00:40:22,610 --> 00:40:20,370 at that so maybe if this work is you 824 00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:22,620 know we could do more of it and see the 825 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:25,110 same thing over and over I saw that 826 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:29,010 phenomenon since 2001 but we just 827 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:31,170 published it but I've seen the same 828 00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:32,850 phenomenon in these sugar derivatives 829 00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:35,880 for 15 years and people wondering why 830 00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:39,420 the heck aren't you focusing it but you 831 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:41,640 still I still you know you should still 832 00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:47,250 look at it in different ways so now the 833 00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:50,310 reason it works I said at first 834 00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:52,980 scientists weren't sure about how it 835 00:40:59,570 --> 00:40:55,950 happened but they know that you can only 836 00:41:02,750 --> 00:40:59,580 form let's say RNA and DNA if you have 837 00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:02,760 one mirror image so that's why it works 838 00:41:07,310 --> 00:41:05,310 well you can't have both what's called a 839 00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:07,320 racemic mixture you can't have left-hand 840 00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:10,350 and right-hand ribose and go and try to 841 00:41:15,530 --> 00:41:12,060 make your DNA 842 00:41:19,610 --> 00:41:15,540 Jerry Joyce at Scripps showed years ago 843 00:41:22,490 --> 00:41:19,620 I think is 84 paper in 84 that you don't 844 00:41:25,970 --> 00:41:22,500 get very far if you mix both of those 845 00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:25,980 mirror images so we know why it works 846 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:29,220 well but the initial spark is still a 847 00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:32,370 question cool thanks for that George our 848 00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,740 next question comes from Janet Ashley 849 00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:36,240 Pollock hello Janet thank you for your 850 00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:39,000 question and she asks whether comets 851 00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:41,310 could also deliver organic material on 852 00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:48,270 earth yes we just you know don't have 853 00:41:54,410 --> 00:41:51,630 what we can actually say is 854 00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:54,420 a comet a bonafide comet like I said 855 00:42:01,220 --> 00:41:57,660 some asteroids or probably comets you 856 00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:01,230 know who knows what the the organically 857 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:03,240 wise what the difference is we just 858 00:42:10,220 --> 00:42:08,130 can't say the there was a paper company 859 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:10,230 last year a few years ago last year I 860 00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:13,050 think where they identified glycine on 861 00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:16,910 the famous comet now 67p where the 862 00:42:26,140 --> 00:42:22,230 European spacecraft is landed on so 863 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:26,150 glycine is the smallest amino acid so 864 00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:29,760 and they identify small organic molecule 865 00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:34,200 CN cyanide a few others but the larger 866 00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:36,600 more what we think of is biologically 867 00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:39,750 relevant I don't think it's known about 868 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:42,750 comets yet but even if there were only 869 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:45,210 those small molecules from aldehyde is 870 00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:47,490 one of them you know this formaldehyde 871 00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:52,620 as ch2oh CN cyanide another couple even 872 00:42:58,700 --> 00:42:55,470 if this only they are the only ones on 873 00:43:02,510 --> 00:42:58,710 comets if they land it on the ancient 874 00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:02,520 earth the chemistry you could get the 875 00:43:06,830 --> 00:43:04,440 further chemistry the the building of 876 00:43:10,220 --> 00:43:06,840 larger compounds from that I think would 877 00:43:14,330 --> 00:43:10,230 be pretty significant again if you have 878 00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:14,340 formaldehyde CN which are in comets 879 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:16,710 right or what not right away but pretty 880 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:18,810 much you're going to get glycine and 881 00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:23,370 other amino acids so just the small 882 00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:25,980 molecules would would have been I think 883 00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:28,680 huge as far as further chemistry from 884 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:32,400 comets thank you the next question is 885 00:43:37,790 --> 00:43:34,710 from Gina regio hi Gina thanks for your 886 00:43:40,850 --> 00:43:37,800 question and she asks what is an example 887 00:43:44,290 --> 00:43:40,860 of an unexpected organic compound that 888 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:44,300 you have recovered from a meteorite oh 889 00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:48,330 the most unexpected I I would say it was 890 00:43:56,060 --> 00:43:53,750 a an organic phosphorous compound that 891 00:43:59,330 --> 00:43:56,070 fairly unusual 892 00:44:02,750 --> 00:43:59,340 she got bond for example DNA and RNA 893 00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:02,760 organic phosphorus but that's not you 894 00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:05,200 know as far as we know not in meteorites 895 00:44:11,309 --> 00:44:07,359 and that's phosphorus with four oxygen 896 00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:11,319 around it and the RNA each phosphate is 897 00:44:15,779 --> 00:44:13,660 bonded to arrivals and then another 898 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:15,789 phosphate and another ribose oh no no no 899 00:44:19,650 --> 00:44:18,970 that's po4 phosphorus with the four 900 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:19,660 oxygen 901 00:44:24,809 --> 00:44:21,970 the most surprising that I could 902 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:24,819 remember is of the the organic 903 00:44:32,730 --> 00:44:28,690 phosphorus we saw years ago bond 904 00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,740 directly to a carbon and it had has 905 00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:34,720 different organic groups attached to the 906 00:44:41,789 --> 00:44:37,710 carbon so they're called phosphonates 907 00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:41,799 not phosphates but phosphonates so I 908 00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:46,720 think that compound was not phenomenal 909 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:50,319 eyes but compound wise is probably the 910 00:44:57,210 --> 00:44:55,690 more surprising cool Janet asked a 911 00:45:00,059 --> 00:44:57,220 question again about whether you have 912 00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,069 any she's Canadian and she's asking if 913 00:45:03,930 --> 00:45:02,079 you have any Canadian colleagues who do 914 00:45:09,059 --> 00:45:03,940 some of these early life early Earth 915 00:45:14,730 --> 00:45:09,069 type studies not myself I I do not but 916 00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:14,740 there are people in Canada who like 917 00:45:21,299 --> 00:45:17,670 meteorites also and analyzed organics 918 00:45:23,759 --> 00:45:21,309 but not not personally Janet you should 919 00:45:25,890 --> 00:45:23,769 check out the Center for planetary 920 00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:25,900 science and exploration which is in in 921 00:45:30,059 --> 00:45:28,329 London London Ontario I think they might 922 00:45:32,009 --> 00:45:30,069 have it's at Western they might have 923 00:45:36,809 --> 00:45:32,019 some department there that you might 924 00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:36,819 find some collaborators the next 925 00:45:46,490 --> 00:45:40,619 question is by Abhishek Sony he asks 926 00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:46,500 what can what can an environmentalist do 927 00:45:51,509 --> 00:45:49,599 with astrobiology if you are modern 928 00:45:53,490 --> 00:45:51,519 ecologists environmentalists how can 929 00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:53,500 that give you insights into astrobiology 930 00:46:02,089 --> 00:45:58,480 I think so that question is going well I 931 00:46:07,410 --> 00:46:02,099 haven't thought of the environmental 932 00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:07,420 connection before as far as astrobiology 933 00:46:15,539 --> 00:46:11,440 you said the between in the environment 934 00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:15,549 and astrobiology and yeah what's that 935 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:18,609 that was been you yeah 936 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:22,890 I think of a it when I think of an 937 00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:25,450 environmentalism I'm thinking of trying 938 00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:29,200 to save the planet from its current you 939 00:46:37,650 --> 00:46:33,369 know it towards destruction like climate 940 00:46:41,069 --> 00:46:37,660 change and the rest but I'm sure there 941 00:46:43,859 --> 00:46:41,079 must be some some connection the the 942 00:46:46,319 --> 00:46:43,869 astrobiologist that I spoke up before 943 00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:46,329 they go you know all around the earth 944 00:46:52,229 --> 00:46:49,150 searching for meteorites and they 945 00:46:54,569 --> 00:46:52,239 obviously the ice melting and where they 946 00:46:58,650 --> 00:46:54,579 go collect meteorites so I'm sure they 947 00:47:01,529 --> 00:46:58,660 would have a really strong bent on on 948 00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:01,539 that particular question it's true and 949 00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:03,609 analog studies that we check are a 950 00:47:08,940 --> 00:47:06,670 modern way of studying astrobiology look 951 00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:08,950 at analog sites that are similar to some 952 00:47:12,299 --> 00:47:10,089 conditions you're exploring in other 953 00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:12,309 worlds and if you have some expertise in 954 00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:15,369 the ecology or the local bio geology 955 00:47:18,839 --> 00:47:16,720 that's going in there then you can make 956 00:47:20,579 --> 00:47:18,849 some educated conclusions about the 957 00:47:22,589 --> 00:47:20,589 plausibility of that environment to be 958 00:47:24,180 --> 00:47:22,599 similar to one elsewhere so there's so 959 00:47:25,650 --> 00:47:24,190 many questions that are pouring in right 960 00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:25,660 now thank you all for for all these 961 00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:27,670 great questions I'm probably not gonna 962 00:47:31,650 --> 00:47:29,140 have time to get through all of them but 963 00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:31,660 we'll do the best we can what is the 964 00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:35,680 next question here it's oh it's by 965 00:47:40,289 --> 00:47:38,079 question by Jacob hack mezra hello Jacob 966 00:47:42,269 --> 00:47:40,299 thank you for your questions and he asks 967 00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:42,279 what are the main geochemical 968 00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,529 differences between meteorites that 969 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:46,960 originated from earth compared to from 970 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:52,319 you mean the meteorites to fall to earth 971 00:48:01,410 --> 00:47:58,720 yes in Martian meteorites that I know of 972 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:01,420 again I haven't studied but I think the 973 00:48:08,670 --> 00:48:05,170 majority are more rock like one or two 974 00:48:12,269 --> 00:48:08,680 have they have found traces of organic 975 00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:12,279 compounds but they look like they come 976 00:48:20,130 --> 00:48:14,230 from a heated process and igneous 977 00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:20,140 process certainly the big complex true 978 00:48:24,299 --> 00:48:22,180 organics that we see an asteroid of 979 00:48:27,509 --> 00:48:24,309 meteorites that falter 980 00:48:29,370 --> 00:48:27,519 you cannot you've been seen in Martian 981 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:29,380 meteorites so I would say they're more 982 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:31,810 rock like more planetary like 983 00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:35,170 less organics yes meteorites from Mars 984 00:48:39,330 --> 00:48:37,300 are essentially like lava flows that 985 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:39,340 then cooled off and became rock that 986 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:41,170 they were then ejected by some sort of 987 00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:42,730 impact and landed on earth whereas 988 00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:45,040 meteorites a more primitive silicon 989 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:47,440 material that are what the planets are 990 00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:49,810 made of in the first place I think 991 00:48:52,340 --> 00:48:51,280 that's what you're after Jacob yeah more 992 00:48:55,350 --> 00:48:52,350 Christian more 993 00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:55,360 well pristine that's it yeah the next 994 00:48:59,400 --> 00:48:57,250 question is by Graham Lau hello Graham 995 00:49:02,040 --> 00:48:59,410 thank you for your question what do you 996 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:02,050 think the odds are that we have Venusian 997 00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:04,330 meteorites already in our collections 998 00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:09,190 but just don't know about them oh well 999 00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:11,620 the the ones in the collections they're 1000 00:49:18,830 --> 00:49:15,940 pretty well characterized every now and 1001 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:18,840 then I will hear something about a 1002 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:23,130 meteorite possible rock from Venus but I 1003 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:27,970 don't know the the people who think the 1004 00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:30,730 geochemist a geologist actually who 1005 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:32,440 think about that type of thing I don't 1006 00:49:41,790 --> 00:49:37,810 know what the latest count is but yeah I 1007 00:49:44,010 --> 00:49:41,800 do hear about that now and then I just 1008 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:44,020 couldn't give a good answer it's a good 1009 00:49:47,850 --> 00:49:45,730 question I don't know either 1010 00:49:50,910 --> 00:49:47,860 Venus meteorites are they cool there's 1011 00:49:52,970 --> 00:49:50,920 probably some rocks from a lot of places 1012 00:49:56,850 --> 00:49:52,980 on earth we just wouldn't recognize it 1013 00:49:58,290 --> 00:49:56,860 if we stepped on it yeah because you 1014 00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,300 have to find them in specific conditions 1015 00:50:01,050 --> 00:50:00,160 you recognize them as meteorites it's 1016 00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:01,060 not always obvious 1017 00:50:05,850 --> 00:50:03,820 the next question is Gina again she 1018 00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:05,860 asked a very good one in terms of you're 1019 00:50:11,130 --> 00:50:08,020 talking about the column in in your lab 1020 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:11,140 or in your lab that's like 25 50 feet or 1021 00:50:16,110 --> 00:50:13,930 meters or even longer I'm sure she asks 1022 00:50:17,790 --> 00:50:16,120 how does that fit in your life in the 1023 00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:17,800 first place and and how many compounds 1024 00:50:23,550 --> 00:50:18,940 people separate 1025 00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:23,560 using that technique well I'm to ask the 1026 00:50:31,590 --> 00:50:28,150 center management for a nice long lap no 1027 00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:31,600 the columns we're talking the ID is a 1028 00:50:38,820 --> 00:50:36,160 millet less the internal diameter so 1029 00:50:42,030 --> 00:50:38,830 they're tightly coiled they're made of 1030 00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:42,040 flexible polyamide material so you can 1031 00:50:47,830 --> 00:50:44,000 imagine take 50 meters 1032 00:50:51,220 --> 00:50:47,840 coil it up into a circle of about let's 1033 00:50:55,300 --> 00:50:51,230 say a foot across and that fits in your 1034 00:50:57,010 --> 00:50:55,310 gas chromatograph oven gotcha and how 1035 00:51:00,520 --> 00:50:57,020 many compounds can you separates like 1036 00:51:03,850 --> 00:51:00,530 like a hundred or more than hundreds 1037 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:03,860 more than hundreds yeah yeah in a single 1038 00:51:08,050 --> 00:51:05,810 run you could have you know I you you 1039 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:08,060 can't even count the number in the 1040 00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:11,570 meteorite it's just you know strange 1041 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:17,940 Sukanya singh asks if you've ever 1042 00:51:22,690 --> 00:51:20,930 detected a compound that that is not 1043 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:22,700 organic and now you're like wow that's a 1044 00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:24,290 really weird one that should not belong 1045 00:51:28,210 --> 00:51:25,910 here or is everything that you've 1046 00:51:29,620 --> 00:51:28,220 discovered kind of expected from the 1047 00:51:34,510 --> 00:51:29,630 cosmic chemistry 1048 00:51:37,870 --> 00:51:34,520 I do see non organic compounds now and 1049 00:51:40,540 --> 00:51:37,880 then as you know just simply you don't 1050 00:51:42,190 --> 00:51:40,550 get all you don't get all of the 1051 00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:42,200 inorganic compounds out for example 1052 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:46,640 sulfate so4 2 - i mentioned i try to get 1053 00:51:52,330 --> 00:51:49,130 you try to get out most as i say it but 1054 00:51:54,850 --> 00:51:52,340 you see sulfate phosphate you know 1055 00:52:00,220 --> 00:51:54,860 traces of it sometimes in your analysis 1056 00:52:02,830 --> 00:52:00,230 so I'll fight you know three and there's 1057 00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:02,840 probably one or two others but those are 1058 00:52:11,110 --> 00:52:05,390 the principal non organics that I'll see 1059 00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:11,120 now and then cool heipiess Eric asks 1060 00:52:15,070 --> 00:52:13,280 about the enantiomeric excess of the 1061 00:52:16,110 --> 00:52:15,080 excess of one carrier molecule versus 1062 00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:16,120 another 1063 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:19,760 how how excess what is the excess I 1064 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:20,810 guess in meteorites 1065 00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:23,330 and and can you use that excess to say 1066 00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:25,040 something about biology or how big has 1067 00:52:29,970 --> 00:52:27,710 the excess need to be in order to make 1068 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:29,980 conclusions about biology 1069 00:52:37,180 --> 00:52:34,490 okay well going back again to before I 1070 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:37,190 started and I mentioned the 97 paper 1071 00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:40,130 chronica Sorella before that there was a 1072 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:43,910 paper looking at a biological amino 1073 00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,450 acids Matt Cole Ingo and Matt Cole 1074 00:52:54,339 --> 00:52:49,839 and I forget the year around 1990 of 1075 00:52:57,099 --> 00:52:54,349 alanine biological amino acid and again 1076 00:52:59,140 --> 00:52:57,109 you know people are always leery of you 1077 00:53:01,839 --> 00:52:59,150 know biological if you say there's any 1078 00:53:06,460 --> 00:53:01,849 Nanta more excess but you know it was 1079 00:53:10,170 --> 00:53:06,470 good work and so we'll have to see about 1080 00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:10,180 more about the biological amino acids 1081 00:53:18,009 --> 00:53:14,660 when you get to the 97 paper 1082 00:53:20,319 --> 00:53:18,019 Crona and a pizza reloj they as I said 1083 00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:20,329 the some of the strange amino acids that 1084 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:22,730 are not in biology that there's no 1085 00:53:29,259 --> 00:53:25,490 question that they came from space so if 1086 00:53:33,250 --> 00:53:29,269 you see in anatomy excess you can say 1087 00:53:35,799 --> 00:53:33,260 that's real s indigenous for for a fact 1088 00:53:38,170 --> 00:53:35,809 those enantiomer excesses or in other 1089 00:53:41,380 --> 00:53:38,180 words one hand more than the other the 1090 00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:41,390 excess of one mirror image of the amino 1091 00:53:43,690 --> 00:53:41,660 acid 1092 00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:43,700 back then they were in the range 1093 00:53:51,009 --> 00:53:46,670 anywhere from 1% I think up to 10% and 1094 00:53:54,690 --> 00:53:51,019 this was more than one amino acid they 1095 00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:54,700 concentrated again on the non biological 1096 00:54:00,849 --> 00:53:58,490 and non non protein amino acids that's 1097 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:00,859 another thing you won't want that aren't 1098 00:54:05,259 --> 00:54:03,650 laying around everywhere in proteins so 1099 00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:05,269 they were in the range of one to ten 1100 00:54:15,180 --> 00:54:10,910 percent and other people have done done 1101 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:15,190 looked at those compounds to the paper 1102 00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:17,690 voice early morning I forget the year of 1103 00:54:24,749 --> 00:54:21,440 the paper but Glavine and Dworkin and I 1104 00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:24,759 think Jamie is Allah to they they did a 1105 00:54:35,019 --> 00:54:30,470 big survey of meteorites and they found 1106 00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:35,029 large excesses and and some of the same 1107 00:54:45,220 --> 00:54:37,910 amino acids I think they they went up to 1108 00:54:49,089 --> 00:54:45,230 20% and so 20 percent excess you know of 1109 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:49,099 one enantiomer one mirror image and then 1110 00:54:56,499 --> 00:54:53,690 pizza reloj Santa Patrol found 50 or 60 1111 00:54:59,930 --> 00:54:56,509 percent excess you know one over the 1112 00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:59,940 other and other larger 1113 00:55:05,269 --> 00:55:01,380 amino acids I think these were 1114 00:55:07,759 --> 00:55:05,279 isoleucine derivatives but mostly with 1115 00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:07,769 the amino acids though you're talking 1116 00:55:15,140 --> 00:55:10,910 about that range of five to ten percent 1117 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:15,150 excess just generally the ones we saw 1118 00:55:20,539 --> 00:55:18,210 last the now switched to sugar 1119 00:55:23,890 --> 00:55:20,549 derivatives away from amino acids so 1120 00:55:28,009 --> 00:55:23,900 last year in June we published that and 1121 00:55:30,829 --> 00:55:28,019 we went compound by compound increasing 1122 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:30,839 carbon number so we went from Glassell 1123 00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:33,210 rick acid so instead of the sugar 1124 00:55:38,299 --> 00:55:35,369 glyceraldehyde if you have your organic 1125 00:55:42,349 --> 00:55:38,309 chemistry book the oxidized form is to 1126 00:55:45,380 --> 00:55:42,359 say rick acid so you add an oxygen and 1127 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:45,390 you get an asset from that sugar so we 1128 00:55:49,309 --> 00:55:47,250 started with dosirak acid which is three 1129 00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,319 carbons then we went to four carbons 1130 00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,839 that's wreaths Roenick three hundred 1131 00:55:56,779 --> 00:55:54,240 five carbons five carbons is where you 1132 00:55:59,539 --> 00:55:56,789 get to the relative of ribose the very 1133 00:56:03,109 --> 00:55:59,549 close structural analog of ribose and 1134 00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:03,119 then we went to six carbons where 1135 00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:05,910 instead of glucose you have gluconic 1136 00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:09,599 acid most of those six carbons are rare 1137 00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:13,380 on earth gluconic is not so back to the 1138 00:56:20,749 --> 00:56:16,710 question at the first carbon number if 1139 00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:20,759 they were the CEREC it was 50/50 no 1140 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:24,390 matter what meteorite you looked at 5050 1141 00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:26,130 now if you got a very contaminated you 1142 00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:28,200 meter i new newest contaminated you know 1143 00:56:37,339 --> 00:56:32,730 you can see a lot more d desert but for 1144 00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:37,349 normal mildly you know clean or super 1145 00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,049 clean meteorites the three carbons hit 1146 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:42,720 fifty as you actually went up in carbon 1147 00:56:48,829 --> 00:56:46,890 number that spread increased so we went 1148 00:56:53,450 --> 00:56:48,839 to see four it was three to one 1149 00:56:56,509 --> 00:56:53,460 d reads ranking three honor we went to 1150 00:56:58,999 --> 00:56:56,519 the five carbon the rai banach acid the 1151 00:57:03,680 --> 00:56:59,009 cousin of ribose that was eight or nine 1152 00:57:09,559 --> 00:57:03,690 to one d we went up to the relatives of 1153 00:57:13,059 --> 00:57:09,569 glucose and it was only d we didn't see 1154 00:57:15,279 --> 00:57:13,069 any of the other mirror image to ale 1155 00:57:17,439 --> 00:57:15,289 and you know i-i-i would still not 1156 00:57:20,229 --> 00:57:17,449 believe it except the weird non earthly 1157 00:57:21,909 --> 00:57:20,239 ones are the same way there's no strict 1158 00:57:26,049 --> 00:57:21,919 boundary right there's no strict 1159 00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:26,059 definition that above 50 it's it's it's 1160 00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:27,529 my logical and below that it's not 1161 00:57:31,269 --> 00:57:29,209 instance it really depends on what 1162 00:57:32,949 --> 00:57:31,279 compounds you're talking about and so on 1163 00:57:35,019 --> 00:57:32,959 oh right right we're talking on a 1164 00:57:37,029 --> 00:57:35,029 molecular basis was found in life and 1165 00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:37,039 therefore can contaminate your 1166 00:57:45,909 --> 00:57:41,569 experiment and was not found and there 1167 00:57:49,419 --> 00:57:45,919 they all show this increase in excess of 1168 00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:49,429 one mirror image now I see so why we 1169 00:57:52,299 --> 00:57:51,140 have we're running close on time so I 1170 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:52,309 just want to give there for you of 1171 00:57:58,179 --> 00:57:54,650 having one last question before we end 1172 00:57:59,890 --> 00:57:58,189 and that is Damian sterling hi Damian 1173 00:58:01,269 --> 00:57:59,900 thanks for your question and he is 1174 00:58:03,759 --> 00:58:01,279 asking perhaps a more speculative 1175 00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:03,769 question because life on Earth and life 1176 00:58:08,620 --> 00:58:06,319 on another terrestrial planets probably 1177 00:58:10,239 --> 00:58:08,630 came from the same building blocks he 1178 00:58:13,150 --> 00:58:10,249 asked do you think and speculatively 1179 00:58:15,249 --> 00:58:13,160 would with alien organisms also use your 1180 00:58:19,269 --> 00:58:15,259 peptides and DNA and and similar stuff 1181 00:58:21,130 --> 00:58:19,279 that were made of that's another good 1182 00:58:22,689 --> 00:58:21,140 question but you know I've heard 1183 00:58:23,919 --> 00:58:22,699 astronomers say we've seen the same 1184 00:58:27,219 --> 00:58:23,929 stuff everywhere 1185 00:58:31,929 --> 00:58:27,229 they look in space oh I think there's a 1186 00:58:34,329 --> 00:58:31,939 very good chance yes they figure this 1187 00:58:36,969 --> 00:58:34,339 one out Damian and then let us know 1188 00:58:38,499 --> 00:58:36,979 that's Nobel Prize type of result yeah 1189 00:58:41,279 --> 00:58:38,509 they might feel a different mirror image 1190 00:58:43,449 --> 00:58:41,289 but same right same compounds right 1191 00:58:45,459 --> 00:58:43,459 George I know you're a very busy person 1192 00:58:47,319 --> 00:58:45,469 and I'm so grateful and thankful that 1193 00:58:48,759 --> 00:58:47,329 you took time to talk to us today on 1194 00:58:51,579 --> 00:58:48,769 Sagan that it's been wonderful having 1195 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:51,589 you best of luck on your research and we 1196 00:58:56,469 --> 00:58:53,890 hope to talk to you again in the future 1197 00:58:59,049 --> 00:58:56,479 if you are watching thank you for for 1198 00:59:01,749 --> 00:58:59,059 your questions hashtag ask Astro bio I 1199 00:59:03,669 --> 00:59:01,759 don't try don't forget to let me know if 1200 00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:03,679 you know what's what's behind me where 1201 00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:06,079 is that picture taken from so until then 1202 00:59:09,699 --> 00:59:07,849 we'll talk to you all next month for a 1203 00:59:11,019 --> 00:59:09,709 new episode of ask an astrobiologist and 1204 00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:11,029 please stay curious